By Michael Motes

(Editor’s Note: June 3 marked the 40th anniversary of the ordination to the priesthood of Archbishop Thomas A. Donnellan. In a recent interview with THE GEORGIA BULLETIN, the Archbishop reminisced about his priestly career and his years in Atlanta.)

GB: What comes to mind as some of the highlights and major accomplishments during your 40-year career as a priest?

Archbishop Donnellan: In looking back over 40 years, it’s difficult to place yourself in the frame of mind in which different things happened. So that some of the highlights or great things at the moment may not seem so important 40 years later. In my early years as a priest I had the joy of having my parents living so that some things, like my first assignment, which was to St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York, was a great highlight. Being at church, which was so important in the minds of all of us who were preparing for the priesthood in New York was a big thing. And my first sermon at High Mass, with my parents coming to hear me. Things like that were a great highlight.

Later on, in different assignments during a period in which I served as secretary to Cardinal Spellman, I had the opportunity to travel with him to Rome in 1954. That was my first trip abroad and it gave me the opportunity of seeing a number of places in Europe. We stopped in France and Switzerland. We visited in Venice and there we met the Patriarch of Venice, who was Cardinal Roncalli, and who was later to be Pope John XXIII. We went on down to Rome and were present for the ceremonies of canonization of Pope Pius X. That was a very great highlight. We were gone for about six weeks and it was a tremendous moment in my life.

The other things, things that were important so far as my own work - my appointment as Vocations Director in the diocese came at the same time that I was serving in the Chancery Office and shortly before I was appointed as Chancellor and I served both as Chancellor and Vocation Director. I had always had a great interest in vocations so it was a great joy to be doing that. My whole work around New York had been in Chancery. My preparation had been in Canon Law so that to be Chancellor of New York was a great lift for me and I enjoyed it very much. But the appointment that probably meant most to me and pleased me the most was to be appointed rector of the seminary, which came in 1962. I remember saying to Archbishop Maguire that the only ambition I ever had was to teach in the seminary and I felt that I was too old for that. About six months later I found myself assigned as rector. Being in charge of the preparation of young men for the priesthood was to me possibly the best of assignments. I couldn’t think of anything more important that I could be doing.

Obviously, the appointment as bishop several years later was a great moment. But I think that maybe the appointment as rector of the seminary was the thing that seems to me the greatest thing. Then, after serving in the Diocese of Ogdensburg four years, being appointed Archbishop of Atlanta. As a Yankee, I wasn’t even sure just where Atlanta was. But it was great to come here and be so warmly received. And to find such great cooperation.

The other thing that I would recall as a highlight was the fact that I was made bishop during the period of the Second Vatican Council, so that within a few months, I was going to Rome to participate in the third session of the Council. I participated in the third and fourth sessions and had the opportunity to vote on most of the great documents. That was a tremendous experience -- to see and to mingle with all the bishops of the Church from all over the world. Those were, I guess, the main highlights.

The accomplishments? I’m not so sure that there is any lengthy list of accomplishments. Your question speaks of major accomplishments. Mostly it was a case of trying to do, as well as you could whatever happened to be your job at the moment. I took a great deal of pride serving the Church in the Chancery and a great deal of joy in the work of vocations and in counseling. I’m not so sure that I have very many major accomplishments to point to.

GB: I take it then, that in the various positions you have had, that you enjoyed the work of Vocations Director as much, if not more, than anything you’ve done -- working with the seminarians and the teaching that was a part of that.

Archbishop: I have been happy and contented in any assignment that I have had. The things that gave me the greatest consolation, I think were the opportunities for pastoral activity. I had served as an assistant in the cathedral parish and heard confessions every day of my life for 20 years. I counseled a great many high school girls, a large number of whom later entered the religious life. And I’ve found a great deal of satisfaction in preparing young men for the priesthood. Very early on, I had the benefit of guidance by very good priests who made clear that it didn’t make so much difference in what area you served the Church, as long as you saw your work as service to the Church and took pride in doing it well. I think that made everything fit in well.

GB: You mentioned the guidance of other priests. Who would you say has been, or was, the most influential person in your life and why?

Archbishop: Well, since I was 20 years at the Cathedral, I was a great deal under the influence -- the very kind and paternal influence -- of Bishop Joseph Flannelly, who was the Rector of the Cathedral during all my time there and who really was a father to me. In the Chancery office, originally Monsignor Gaffney, who was the chancellor when I entered there, was a very great help. And later, the present coajutor Archbishop John Maguire, both of whom were great influences in the office. In the house in which I lived, the late Bishop James Griffith and the retired Bishop of Springfield, Bishop Weldon, both of whom lived in the house with me, were very kind in counseling a younger priest.

GB: How is the Church in which you were ordained similar or dissimilar to the Church of today?

Archbishop: It’s probably well to remember and to be reminded that it’s the same Church, the same sacraments, the same faith, and that it adjusts to today as it has adjusted over 2,000 years. So that the changes aren’t really that great and they’re not that much of a concern. I think that all of us find it difficult to shift out of familiar patterns. There is probably a more casual attitude toward authority presently. There is less formality. Those things are fairly obvious an aren’t overly important. There has been a good deal of change due to the impact of the Second Vatican Council, but Pope John XXIII indicated that one of the purposes of the Council was the renewal of the Church. The renewal which is most important I think, has been in attempting to make the Liturgy more meaningful towards people in general; to make the role of the different members of the Church more real and more meaningful, which obviously has expanded the role of the laity and given more meaning to it. And I think that’s the change that is most obvious and possibly has caused more difficulty. But it’s a change that was begun by the Second Vatican Council and therefore a change to be welcomed.

GB: You mentioned earlier that when you became a bishop you were able to participate in the third session of the Vatican Council. Would you like to elaborate on that any more?

Archbishop: Only that for me it was a great opportunity to come very quickly to know the bishops of the United States quite well. We were together for months at a time over a prolonged period of each day and would gather together even outside of the Council sessions to discuss the different documents and different actions so that in a limited span of time I came to know the bishops very well, and this was a great blessing. Because, aside from occasions like that, a new bishop doesn’t really have the opportunity to get to know the others. He knows the people in his immediate area, but he doesn’t know the bishops of the whole country, and that’s a highly educational process. It’s a very supportive process, too. No matter what your background when you come to the office of bishop, you are new and you are not all that sure and it is helpful to be able to discuss with your peers the problems that you have and find out if they have the same problems and to find out how they react and how they handle them. For me, that was one of the most significant parts of the Second Vatican Council. It also was a great opportunity to hear many of the great names in the Church and to meet them and to have the opportunity to listen to some of the great thinkers as they expounded on different questions. That was, again, an opportunity I would never have had, outside of the Council.

GB: In your role as bishop teacher, what would you regard as the most important ideas you have tried to impress upon the people during your years as archbishop?

Archbishop: Probably my answer to that question would be based on my own personal concerns and interests. I’ve always felt the need to make clear to our people that their work in carrying out their part in God’s plan must be based on sound values and critical judgement. And those values, again, must be based on scripture and the teaching of the Church. If your values are good and if you develop your critical sense, then you will not be overwhelmed by changing times and customs and you will be able to reach good decisions -- decisions which help you to carry out the will of God and fulfill your role in the Church. So, basically, I’m always insistent on sound values which come from Gospel teachings and Church teaching.

Secondly, the ability to evaluate the signs of the times and to evaluate them in the light of scripture and Church teaching. When you do that, then you reach good decisions. That’s the primary thing I’ve been talking about, so that I would be very much concerned, for example, about religious education. That’s why I would regard our Catholic schools as so important, because they are, for me, the best instrument of religious education.

In our own situation here, I think that we share with the rest of the United States the dreadfully bad influence of that Supreme Court decision regarding abortion. I think that presently is one of the great evils in the United States -- the growing disregard for human life, especially human life in the womb. There’s no question, statistically and through general attitudes and studies, that there is a growing disregard for that life and something which we had always regarded as gravely wrong and highly immoral now suddenly is accepted as moral because it’s legal. Again I’ve found it necessary to emphasize the value of life as a gift of God and our need to take every possible step to preserve that life and to work for it. I think you may well judge the state of a civilization and a culture by the value it places on life and sensitivity to both life and the quality of life. It seems to me that those are the things I have attempted to emphasize as archbishop.

GB: Concerning that statement, how do you feel that the pro-life movement is progressing here in the archdiocese?

Archbishop: I think that it is progressing well. Nothing is ever progressing as well as I’d like it. But we’re doing well. I think our people are sensitive to the question, they are willing to make sacrifices in order to do what they can to see that their values are reflected in the laws of the country. They are willing to band together in order to protect life. As long as you have a great sensitivity to the God-given gift and you have an equal willingness to make sacrifices to protect your values, then things will go well.

GB: What reflections or comments do you have on the “Year of the Popes,” first the death of Pope Paul VI, followed by the death of Pope John Paul I, and finally, the election of Pope John Paul II?

Archbishop: Probably the word traumatic belongs there. It was certainly a year of successive shocks, with the death of Paul VI and the sudden death of Pope John Paul I. I suppose the fact I was in Rome for the whole month of the pontificate of Pope John Paul I and had the opportunity to meet with him and come to know him made that an even more shocking thing. Yet, the will of God works out and great good seems to have come.

I don’t believe, for example, we could have the present Holy Father unless he had been preceeded by Pope John Paul I and I think the present Holy Father is a great blessing of God to the Church. Too, I was just tremendously impressed by the interest of the whole world in the death of the popes and the elections of the popes. All over the world, but especially here in our own part of the country, our non-Catholic brethren were most kind in their expressions of sympathy in the case of the two deaths and most interested in the elections. I was just tremendously impressed by that. It seems to me that their interest and their good will and their sympathy is an indication of how we have progressed in terms of good ecumenical relations. So that while I mourned, and mourned deeply the death of the two popes, I feel that in God’s good and holy plan much good has come to the world and to the Church this year.

GB: Do you think that there will ever be an American pope?

Archbishop: There could well be. I’ve always been very much impressed with the spirit of the Church, which doesn’t regard nationality as that important. For example, we’ve had so many Italian popes, and yet the majority of Catholics are not Italian, but have welcomed with great joy the election of a pope, whether he be Italian or not. Naturally, when a pope of a particular nationality is elected, the people of that nationality are overjoyed, but in general, we are a people concerned with the election of a Holy Father and we don’t lay much emphasis on nationality. I think there may be, in time, an American pope, but I doubt very much that will come in my lifetime, primarily because there is some concern about representatives of countries which are very powerful. There is a concern among other countries that people from those powerful countries might well be reflecting the foreign policy of the powerful countries and I think that kind of an attitude stands as a handicap to the election of a cardinal from a place like the United States or from any of the great powers. But there is certainly no other reason.

GB: How have you seen the role of the laity develop in recent years?

Archbishop: I think the role of the laity has developed tremendously and that’s a good thing since we have, in recent years, placed much more emphasis on a very clear truth of the priesthood of all of the members of the Church. We all share in the priesthood of Jesus Christ, we all share in the work of his Church, so that everyone has a function in the Church. It would not be for the health of the whole body if the function of any particular members were down-played or neglected.

So it’s a good thing to emphasize the laity, as sharers in the priesthood of Jesus Christ, have a very special role in the Church and it’s a good thing that they have come to recognize their responsibilities and have been willing to take on those responsibilities. The difficulty is that when you fulfill particular roles, serious responsibilities go with them and that has to always be recognized. It isn’t just a question of honors, it’s a question of responsibilities and I think that’s probably impressed me most -- the willingness of the laity to take on additional responsibilities in the work of the Church.

GB: Would you care to predict the directions the Church may take in future years particularly in the fields of ecumenism and women’s ordination?

Archbishop: My record in making predictions is not very good. I think fairly safely, I could say that the Church will be making strong efforts for increasingly improved ecumenical relations. Certainly the documents of the Second Vatican Council make very clear to us that it is our responsibility to walk the extra mile and to reach out; that we can’t wait, we must make special efforts. And I think that we have done that and we will continue to do that. I’m greatly inspired by the wonderful relationships we have in our archdiocese with all of the different churches.

In terms of the ordination of women, I think that the Holy Father, Pope Paul VI, stated very clearly that he did not see that the Church could ordain women. That does not preclude discussion of the question, but it certainly seems to be a clear statement that he, at least, did not foresee the ordination of women and I would share that attitude or frame of mind.

GB: What do you recall as the most humorous thing ever happened to you in an official capacity?

Archbishop: I’ve served as master of ceremonies to number of bishops and I have made enough mistakes in that role so that I could probably do a small book of humorous incidents. I probably won’t and I’m not sure that they are really worthy of that much attention. It’s hard to respond to that question. I probably need more time to think about it and think I’ll pass on that question.

GB: What do you do on your days off and what hobbies or outside interests do you have?

Archbishop: The trouble with the answer to that question is that it sounds pompous. Since I came to Atlanta, I don’t have regular days off. I occasionally take some time off to play golf, which I enjoy very much and play very poorly. That’s my only recreation and I do that maybe four or five times a year. I don’t generally take a day off unless someone comes into town and I want to take time with them. When I have time on my own, the two things I enjoy doing would be reading, I’ve always enjoyed reading very much, and in latter years I’ve done a great deal of listening to records. I enjoy listening to symphony music and operatic music and I do a good deal of that for my own relaxation. When I’m on vacation, I play golf and I swim every day, but that’s on vacation.

GB: At what age did you first think about entering the priesthood?

Archbishop: Taking my family background and my parish background, I’d have to say about the age that I started to become an altar boy, which was about age seven. But that’s starting to think about it. In the course of the years, I thought about it regularly and put it aside regularly, but came back to it fairly seriously when I was in high school. I lived in a parish in which we had a close relationship with the priest and most of us would have given some thought to the priesthood as a vocation. I would have been encouraged in that in my own family situation.

But in high school we were encouraged to think seriously about what we wanted to do with our lives, particularly as it related to our choice on graduation, so that I had to give it a good deal of thought. I went to a Jesuit school that had a very stiff academic course and it was there that I gave some thought to the possibility of entering the Society of Jesus, since the fact they were all Jesuits and I admired them very much. But basically my attachments had been to the parish in which I grew up and had served as an altar boy and in which my family was very much involved, so that I was preparing to graduate from high school, I chose to enter the diocesan college seminary, where I lived at home for two years before I entered the major seminary.

GB: What do you see as some of the most pressing needs of the Archdiocese of Atlanta today?

Archbishop: This is a good time to ask that question, since Pentecost Sunday marked the opening of our year of evangelization and quite obviously the whole Church in the United States is concentrating on the motion of outreach to those who have drifted from the faith and to those who are not presently affiliated with any church. We’re all conscious of our need to respond to the directive of our Lord to “go and teach all nations,” so that evangelization is a number one need.

I think, too, the American bishops have indicated the need to concentrate on the support of the family. The family in the United States is subjected to many pressures and it’s necessary that we give every support to the family, which encompasses a fairly large and wide-spread apostolate. Locally, I have been concerned about two areas. One is religious education and the other is the care of the elderly. We need to do a great deal of work in both areas and we have a large number of older persons who need a good deal of assistance. We’ve been working on this for a long time.

GB: In the area of elderly care, can you say anything about the work being done toward eventually building a health care facility in the Archdiocese?

Archbishop: We’ve spent the last two and a half years investigating, studying, preparing and I have strongly resisted making any announcements until we are reasonably sure of the direction that we’re going to take. I think I will continue to resist that temptation until we’re ready to announce an action step.

GB: If you could be granted one wish, what would it be?

Archbishop: The simplistic answer to that question in the tradition in which I grew up would be this: To save my soul. Having weathered 40 years of the priesthood and probably become a little more sophisticated, I would probably give the same answer and say to achieve my destiny -- which is eventual union with our Lord Jesus Christ in heaven.