(Note: Georgia Bulletin Editor, Father Noel C. Burtenshaw, recently interviewed Cardinal Leo Suenens of Belgium, who was in Atlanta at the invitation of Dean David Collins, Rector of the Episcopal Cathedral of Saint Philip, for an ecumenical service. The world-renown Charismatic leader expressed his views on a variety of timely Church matters in the following excerpts from the interview.)

PART II

Father B.: You once wrote a book about the Legion of Mary. Have you changed over the years?

Cardinal: As you know, when I became a bishop, I had to make a choice of a motto and my choice was "In the Holy Spirit," with the idea that where you see the Holy Spirit at work try to follow and you will get help on your own level. The first movement of the Spirit I encountered in my life was the Legion of Mary, which is a Charismatic gift and apostolate for the people and quite definitely is Charismatic without the word. For 15 years, as bishop, I was the spiritual leader of the Legion of Mary in Belgium. When I became archbishop, I had to give it up because I had to support everything and could not remain the chaplain of one movement, as it would be annoying for other movements. So that is the reason I did not continue. On the other side, I would say also I appreciate very much the Legion of Mary as a vision, as an instrument of apostolate, but I have to say that the handbook of the Legion should be rewritten because in 50 years the style is different, but that does not touch the symptoms of it.

Father B.: Do you think the Synod of Bishops is now a strong organization and do you think that the Holy Father will include them in the Consistory?

Cardinal: For the second question, he decided not to do it. He said publicly that perhaps we will see some of the bishops of the Synod in the conclave. He renounced that; it's a bit difficult also for other reasons. I think the Synod of Bishops is not yet the ideal instrument; it is something important and should be there. I think you could use it better, however, it is really good to have it.

Father B.: As a Cardinal in Europe, do you have any great fear of the spread of Communism, for example in Italy?

Cardinal: I have no more information about that than anyone else, only what I read in the papers. We will see what happens in France. That will be an important direction. Directions there can be an important movement. Also, as for Italy, you have to be aware that the Communists appear as if they are very open and very large to enter into parliament. But there is really a danger. You cannot trust Communists when they speak nicely about union with Catholics. When you see the action in the different cities where they are, and that is many cities in Italy, you can see this.

Father B.: When you visit Ireland, do you intend to go to the Northern Province where there is trouble?

Cardinal: No, we have no direct reason to go there. I will go to Dublin for the World Charismatic Conference, which will be held there. I hope that people from the North will come there. Two years ago, or perhaps it was three years, we had a meeting with the people of Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland, with a strong delegation of Protestants of Ireland, coming to pray with us in Dublin. I was the Catholic leader there. I think the fact that we prayed for three days together was a manifestation of the power of the Spirit to unite across the divisions.

Father B.: They say that in the United States, perhaps the Charismatic Movement was stronger a couple of years ago, and that it was a fad that is passing. What do you think?

Cardinal: I don't believe that it was a fad or something passing. The phenomenon of maturity is there -- you have people thinking more in depth and leaving a bit of the superficiality of it, but the normal consequences of that would be stronger groups, but perhaps not so numerous. I don't know the American situation at that point. I see it still growing in every part of the world.

Father B.: Regarding the ministry, what do you feel concerning married clergy?

Cardinal: I don't think we will have a new situation there as far as I can see now. What will happen in the future depends on the bishops' conferences. If they ask for it, that will create a new problem of that moment.

Father B.: Regarding ordination would you comment on the ordination of women?

Cardinal: As far as I am concerned with the problem, I think that pastorally speaking I don't see it in the future, not before the year 2000. What happens after the year 2000 … that's your responsibility! My responsibility, as far as I can see, is that, again pastorally speaking, it would not be wise in the Catholic Church. The theological side of things is a complicated reality. I should be inclined to think, as a theological foundation, that we should see things in a complementary way, just like the role of man and woman is complementary -- they are equal, but in different ways. If you put the problem as being one of democracy, saying I am your equal, nobody can say I have the right to be a priest. It is a calling; it's not to be put on the sort of level of human rights. What Jesus did is one thing; what He could have done is another. What we have to see is what He did. It seems for me, it is not pastorally indicated.

Father B.: What are your thoughts about permanent deacons?

Cardinal: In my diocese, I have 60 permanent deacons and there is a future in that line. I see more and more coming from them. I think it is very important to see what aim permanent deacons have. Different ones are in charge of different apostolates, such as visiting the sick. I think there is music in the future -- part of the choir that the priests direct.

Father B.: What is the most important document or fact from Vatican II in your opinion?

Cardinal: For me, Lumen Gentium, the mystery of the Church, and it is in the chapters that nobody is reading. Usually they read Chapter 2 about the People of God and they don't read Chapter 1, which is the Mystery of the Church, which is very important and should be understood well. It is an act of faith when I say I believe in the Church -- one Catholic and Apostolic Church, that I believe in the mystery of the Church. But the Church is holy and independent of you and me. She makes me holy; the Church is not holy because of you and me. This is the mystery of the Church announced there and it is a key.

Also, nobody seems to read Chapter 4, which is a call to holiness, saying that as Christians you are obliged to be holy. Holiness is not something just for nuns and monks. It is something for everybody. Also Chapter 8, about Our Blessed Lady. I think that we need more and more in the Church of today to stress the role of Mary and to understand it well.

Father B.: Do you think the works of the Council are being well enforced in the Church today?

Cardinal: Unfortunately, no. So many people do not even read it. Everybody should read it; should study it; let it penetrate deeper. I've never made an inquiry about it, but I am afraid that even many priests have not read the works very thoroughly.

Father B.: Are you planning to retire?

Cardinal: Oh yes, one year from now when we are 75. I will retire from the Diocese of Brussels, but will continue everything outside of the diocese, meaning what you have to do as a Cardinal and on other levels.

Father B.: Have you any special plans for your retirement?

Cardinal: Coming to the States a bit more. Now I condense everything into two weeks in order not to leave my diocese for too long.

Father B.: Will you take any special job from the Holy Father?

Cardinal: I don't know if he will offer a special job to somebody over 75, which wouldn't be very wise.

Father B.: Thank you very much, Cardinal Suenens.

Cardinal: Now you know everything about me!